Birth and Baptism dates - Some folk seem to have been baptised before they were born. My father's explanation was that the indigenous population had scant regard for registration imposed by the "Parliament of the Saxons" and were in no hurry to comply with its rules. If the system was the same as in England and Wales, if a birth was not registered within a small number of weeks, there was a financial penalty. Therefore, parents would give any birth date to fall within the regulations.
Perhaps they were influenced by the man who wrote in the Newinn Register of Marriages at the start of 1864 —
This year has commenced a Registry of Births - Deaths - & Marriages as arranged by the Government & Parliament of the Heartless & unprincipled Saxons on whom & on which may God's Grace alight and perpetually dwell now & for ever more. Amen.
This is the fervent malison of the undersigned Parish Priest -
John Ryan, P.P. of New Inn & Knockgraffon.
William Dunne was baptised on Tuesday, February 10, 1846 in the Parish of Newinn and Knockgraffon, son of Margaret Tobin (c1814 - 1874) and Edmund Dunne, Carpenter (c1817 - 1877) of Carrigeen, Newinn, Co. Tipperary. [See Section DN-5-1 for family background.]
He was a carpenter, built a house for the mother of the then Archbishop (Shine) of Liverpool, not to mention the convent and school in Newinn. He remained in Carrigeen when the rest of the family went to Australia.
Ellen Lyons was baptised on Friday, June 4, 1852 in the Parish of Newinn and Knockgraffon, daughter of Mary Fogarty ( - ) and John Lyons (1826 - ) of Boytonrath, Co. Tipperary. [See Section LS-5-2 for family background.]
1873 William Dunne married Ellen Lyons.
There is a suitable marriage registered at Cashel, 1873 Quarter 1, Volume 3, Page 454. [No image available]
I have searched the marriage registers for Newinn and most of the surrounding parishes (Cashel, Golden, Bansha, Cahir, Clonmel (SS Peter and Paul) and Clerihan) without success, which leaves Clonmel (St Mary's) (whose marriage registers are available online only to 1836) or further afield. [I've checked Holycross.]
William and Ellen had the following children (that I know of) —
Edmond born in 1875 and died in 1956 Margaret born in 1877, married Richard Reynolds in 1912 in Shotts and died in 1969 Catherine born in 1879, married Frank Corbett in 1923 and died in 1965 John born in 1882 and died in 1893 Patrick born in 1885 and died in 1886 Mary Bridget born in 1886 and died about 1920? Helena born in 1889 and died in 1979
1875 Edmond Dunn (Ned) was born, allegedly, on Tuesday, April 20 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunn m.s Lyons and William Dunn, Carpenter, Carrigeen. His birth was registered No.381 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on May 14 by Ellen Dunn, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 8652033]
He was baptised in Newinn on Wednesday, April 7, with sponsors Edd Dunne and Margaret Hefernan. His parents are recorded as William Dunne and Ellen Lyons.
Which gives us the first example of baptism before the alleged birth date. I don't know when his birthday was observed.
He lived at Carrigeen all his life, was a carpenter at Rockwell College, never married, and died in 1956.
1877 Margaret Dunne (Peg) was born, allegedly, on Wednesday, June 20 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunne m.s Lyons and William Dunne, Carpenter, Carrigeen. Her birth was registered No.136 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on July 13 by Ellen Dunne, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 10165128]
She was baptised in Newinn on Tuesday, May 29 with sponsors Timothy Hally and Ellen Lonergan. Her parents are recorded as William Dunne and Ellen Lyons.
Another baptism before alleged birth date. We kept her birthday on June 20.
Be that as it may, in the fullness of time she went to teacher training college in Liverpool and taught in Haddington, East Lothian for a short time before moving to the Shotts, Lanarkshire where she married Dick Reynolds.
1878 September 18 Ellen Lyons or Dunne and John Mahan were sponsors at the baptism in Newinn of Honora of Michael Hally and Catherine Cummins.
This is the only instance I've seen of maiden and married names being recorded. Life would be a lot simpler had it been standard practise.
1879 Catherine Dunne (Kate) was born, allegedly, on Sunday, October 5 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunne m.s Lyons and William Dunne, Carpenter, Carrigeen. Her birth was registered No.96 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on November 7 by Ellen Dunne, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 11390464]
She was baptised in Newinn on Sunday, September 7, with sponsors Miles Heffernan and Margaret Dunne. Her parents are recorded as William Dunne and Ellen Lyons.
She married Frank Corbett in 1923 and died in 1965.
1882 John Dunne (Jack) was born, allegedly, on Thursday, June 1 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunne m.s Lyons and William Dunne, Carpenter, Carrigeen. His birth was registered No.70 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on June 23 by Ellen Dunne, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 10803412]
He was baptised in Newinn on Sunday, May 14, with sponsors John Kent and Ellen Heffernan. [Not available on-line]
Sadly, he died in 1893, age 11.
1885 Patrick was born. He was baptised in Newinn on Monday, February 23, with sponsors James Hally and Mary Meehan [not available on-line]. Unfortunately, he lived barely a year and is buried in Mortlestown.
There are no births registered for Patrick Dunne 1885 - 1890.
There is the death of a Patrick Dunne, age 1, registered at Cashel in 1886, no Group Registration ID, but Quarter 2, Vol 3, Page 319. [No image available]
1886 Mary Bridget was born, allegedly, on Tuesday, June 8 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunne m.s Lyons and William Dunne, Carpenter, Carrigeen. Her birth was registered No.68 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on July 9 by Ellen Dunne, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 11143752]
She was baptised in Newinn on Tuesday, May 25, with sponsors John Noonan and Catherine Hally [not available on-line].
I cannot find a suitable death registered in Cashel for Mary, Mary Bridget or Bridget Dunne between 1910 and 1940. Which is odd since she is said to have died in hospital in Cashel. Nor can I find a suitable registration elsewhere in Ireland.
1889 Helena Dunne (Lena) was born, allegedly, on Saturday, February 1, 1890 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn to Ellen Dunne m.s Lyons and William Dunne, Carpenter, Carrigeen. Her birth was registered No.82 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on March 21, 1890 by Ellen Dunne, Mother, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 9596407]
She was baptised in Newinn on Sunday, October 27, 1889 with sponsors Michael Hally and Kate Brien [not available on-line].
We kept her birthday on October 22 (a Tuesday in 1889), make of that what you will.
Since Lena appears to have gone to secondary school in Southampton, did her teacher training there and spent most of the rest of her life in Scotland, I have decided to give her a page of her own.
1893 John Dunne died on Friday, May 19 at Carrigeen, Parish of New Inn, aged 11 years, of Bronchitis - two months, Uncertified, No Med. Attend. He is recorded as the son of a Carpenter. His death was registered No.179 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on June 13 by William Dunne, Father, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 3885522]
1901 March 31 Some of the family were living in Carrigeen.
Name Rel. Religion Educn. Age Sex Occupation Mar. Where Born Dunne William Head Rom.Cath. R & W 50 M Carpenter Mar Co. Tipperary Dunne Ellen Wife Rom.Cath. R & W 46 F Housekeeper Mar Co. Tipperary Dunne Edward Son Rom.Cath. R & W 25 M Carpenter Unm Co. Tipperary Dunne Helena Daur Rom.Cath. R & W 12 F Scholar Unm Co. Tipperary Hally Timothy Lodger Rom.Cath. R & W 50 M General Servant
(Domestic)Unm Co. Tipperary Margaret (age 23) is teaching in Haddington, East Lothian, which leaves Kate (21) and Bab (14) unaccounted for. Having eliminated several possibilities in Ireland, I turned my attention to England and Wales.
There is an index entry for Mary B Dunne, age 14, born Ireland, a Resident Pupil in Newport, Monmouthshire. There is also a Mary B Dunn, age 14, born Ireland, no occupation, in Yorkshire.
There is an index entry for Catherine Dunne, age 24, born Ireland, no occupation, in West Derby, Kirkdale, Lancashire and one for Catherine Dunne, age 22, born Ireland in Pestwich, North Manchester, Lancashire but she is a Domestic Servant.
In each case, it costs money for more detail so I'll leave that 'til I can maximise cost-effectiveness.
1911 Ellen Dunne, wife of a Carpenter, died on Thursday, March 9 at Carrigeen, aged 58 years, of Chronic Bronchitis, Certified. Her death was registered No.376 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on July 14 by Helena Dunne, daughter, present at death, Carrigeen. [Group Registration ID 5195123]
1911 April 2 Some of the family were still living in Carrigeen.
Name Rel. Religion Educn. Age Occupation Mar. Where Born William Dunne Head Rom.Cath. R & W 63 Carpenter Widower Tipperary Ned Dunne Son R.C. R & W 34 Carpenter Single Tipperary Mary Bridget Dunne Daur R.C. R & W 23 School Teacher Single Tipperary There is an entry applicable to married women which has been scored out,
Total years of marriage - 35, Children born alive - 8, children still living - 5
Either Billy miscounted or there was another child who has eluded my researches.Peg is in Shotts, Lanarkshire and Lena is in Bonhill, Dunbartonshire.
In England, there is an index entry for Catherine Dunne, age 28, born Carrigeen, Tipperary, a Teacher in Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire and, despite the age being three years out, I can't see that being anyone else.
1912 On Saturday, June 29, Peg married Dick Reynolds in St Patrick's, Shotts. [See Section RS-71-2 for further information.]
1920 There is the death of a Mary Dunne age 33 registered at Cashel with Group Registration ID 5749041.
1923 On Monday, July 23, Catherine Dunne and Francis Corbett were married at the Roman Catholic Church of New Inn. The marriage was registered No.7 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on March 5, 1924. [Group Registration ID 1222623]
Kate was a Spinster, of Full Age, occupation Teacher and residence Carrigeen, New Inn. Her father is recorded as William Dunne, Carpenter.
Frank was a Bachelor, of Full Age, occupation Artisan and resident in Clonmel. His father is recorded as William Corbett, Artisan. [Bakers.]
The celebrant was John F. Murphy, C.C. and the witnesses were Edward Hanahan and Helena Dunne.
1869 Francis Corbett was born on Sunday, October 3 and baptised in St Mary's, Clonmel on Thursday, October 7 by Fr Patrick J. Flynn with sponsors John Lullernan and Mary Corbett. His parents are recorded as William Corbett and Catherine Byrne of Irishtown, Clonmel.
1930 Francis Corbett died on Monday, March 3 at the District Hospital, Clonmel, aged 60 years, of Croupous Pneumonia, Certified. He is recorded as Married and a Baker of 2 Rink Place, Clonmel. His death was registered No.410 in the District of Clonmel No.1 on March 18 by T.J. McGrath, Deputy Occupier, District Hospital, Clonmel. [Group Registration ID 1304052]
At some point after Frank's death, Kate returned to Carrigeen.
1934 William Dunne died on Tuesday, September 25 at Carrigeen, New Inn, aged 86 years, of (a) Myocardial Degeneration (b) Syncope, Certified. He is recorded as a Widower and a Carpenter. His death was registered No.77 in the District of Tullamaine in the Union of Cashel on October 3 by Kitty Carey, present at death, Carrigeen, New Inn. [Group Registration ID 1753043]
He was buried at Mortlestown.
1956 Edmund Dunne died on Friday, September 21 at St Patrick's Hospital, Cashel, aged 82 years, of Cardiac failure, Appenditis, Cellulitis of Forearm, Certified. He is recorded as a Bachelor and a Retired Carpenter of Rockwell, Cashel. His death was registered No.81 in the District of Cashel on October 2 by Jane Molumby, Occupier, St. Patrick's Hospital, Cashel. [Group Registration ID 2274820]
He was buried at Mortlestown.
1965 Catherine Corbett died on Sunday, July 11 at St Patrick's Hospital, Cashel, aged 85 years, of Myocardial Degeneration, Arterio Sclerosis, Certified. She is recorded as the Widow of a Baker and her address is given as Carrigeen, New Inn, Cashel. Her death was registered No.494 in the District of Cashel on July 21 by Mary Prendergast, Occupier, St. Patrick's Hospital, Cashel. [Group Registration ID 2766914]
Kate was buried in the family lair at Mortlestown. She was the last occupant of the family home and after her death, the house collapsed and was removed when the road was straightened in the early 1970s.
1979 Lena died on Tuesday, January 23 in Glasgow and was buried with Peg and Dick Reynolds in St. Peter's Cemetery, Dalbeth.